PBS Prosecutor Race Live Discussion
Full Transcript:
Thursday, June 25, 2020 8:00pm
Candidate Forum for Honolulu Prosecuting Attorney Office
PBS Hawaii Live Stream on Election 2020 Insights Starts Now on PBS - Facebook
Introduction: 7 candidates, one seat. The Honolulu Prosecutor’s Office has been rocked by a recent corruption scandal now the race is on to replace City Prosecutor Keith Kaneshiro. Only three men have ever been elected as Honolulu’s Prosecuting Attorney. So a fresh face will take over the office. The candidates will address issues like the criminal justice system, public trust and victim’s rights. Tonight’s live broadcast on Livestream of Election 2020 on Insights PBS Hawaii start now:
Introductory Remarks by Moderator: Aloha and welcome to Insights on PBS Hawaii, I’m Lara Yamada. Well there is a crowded field of candidates trying to become Honolulu’s next elected prosecutor. Seven candidates in all, none of whom have held elected office before. If none of the candidates get a majority of the votes in the primary election in August the top two vote getters will face off in the General Election in November. All seven candidates running for this seat are joining us via the Internet. We look forward to your participation in tonight’s show. You can email, call or tweet your questions and you’ll find a live stream of this program at PBSHawaii.org and on PBS Hawaii Facebook Page. Alright now to the order of our guests. The order of introduction was determined by random drawing: Anosh Yaqoob is a practicing criminal law attorney in Honolulu; Dwight Nadamoto is the Acting Prosecuting Attorney for the City & County of Honolulu; Megan Kau is a trial attorney in civil litigation, personal Injury cases and felony criminal matters; Jacquie Esser is a career public defender; Tae Kim is a practicing criminal law attorney in Honolulu; Steve Alm is a former Circuit Court Judge and a former deputy prosecutor in Honolulu and; Robert RJ. Brown is a civil litigator and also a former deputy prosecuting attorney in Honolulu. Alright now before we get started we want to share with everyone that Insights is designed as a discussion during which guests are asked questions posed by us and also by you, our viewers. So to get to as many issues as possible we’ve asked our guests to keep answers succinct. Now, if we feel a guest is running long or stepping on another guest we will interrupt verbally, and visually, and if that doesn’t work, we may resort to this…(bell rings three times). OK, with that in mind. Alright let’s go ahead and jump in. Alright here’s the first question. Is there a transparency and accountability problem in the Prosecutor’s office and if so, if you are elected, name the first thing that you would do to change that? Who’d like to start?
Anosh Yaqoob: Hi I’m sorry was that question directed at someone specifically?
Moderator: This is for everyone to answer maybe Megan why don’t we start with you?
Megan Kau: Thank you Lara. Yes, based on the current administration’s misconduct or alleged misconduct there has been a transparency issue and what I would do is I would answer every single question that is asked. I currently do that. I answer my regular cell phone number, my campaign cell phone number, I get hundreds of text messages and emails each day, Facebook messages, DM’s and I answer every single question and I think that people just want to have answers.
Moderator: Alright, I’m going to turn it over to you.
Dwight Nadamoto: Of course I’m going to…
Moderator: I’m sorry go ahead Dwight.
Anosh Yaqoob: Whoa.
Dwight Nadamoto: Of course we disagree with that. Um you know I have people in my office whose sole responsibility is answering questions from the public. We…
Anosh Yaquoob: That can’t be right because I never got any response when I apply to the prosecutor’s.
Moderator: Anosh why don’t we go ahead and let people finish speaking first.
Dwight Nadamoto: whenever a media source has asked us for an interview we do interview. We put out press releases.
Anosh Yaquoob: Yeah right, riiigghhtt.
Dwight Nadamoto: If a public person calls us that’s what we do. I do not believe that there is a transparency problem in this office.
Anosh Yaquoob: That’s why Steve Levison just resigned from the police commission.
Moderator: We’d like to have everyone if they can finish their question or their answers first that would be great.
Dwight Nadamoto: I hate to say that Anosh but Steve Levison has nothing to do with the office of the prosecutor
Anosh Yaquoob: My name is Anosh Anosh.
Moderator: Anosh.
Anosh Yaqoob: That’s why Levison and the other person resigned from the office because of transparency issues. Where is this question even coming from? Because of their resignation.
Robert RJ Brown: Maybe if we can take the picture off of Anosh’s personal situation…I think that it’s completely clear that regardless of the efforts that Mr. Nadamoto is making to increase transparency in the office there’s a total loss of public trust that’s going on there and whoever the candidate is that’s going to be elected the first thing they should do is go in and audit that office. Open up the books let’s look at the dispositions look at the cases that have been charged
Anosh Yaquoob: Transparency is a problem.
Robert RJ Brown: the prosecutor’s that have been assigned to them. Sir if you could just hold on one moment and what we can do is release those results to the public and ultimately allow the public to see what’s been going on that’s the only way we’re going to get that fresh start to get into a new direction.
[Several people speaking at once. Difficult to understand any individual clearly.]
Dwight Nadamoto: You know nothing is more important to me than the integrity of the office.
Jacquie Esser: I absolutely agree. Sorry Mr. Nadamoto Sorry Mr. Nadamoto you had a chance so.
Dwight Nadamoto: To that extent, I have encouraged all the deputies and the staff to report any suspicious behavior or anything like that. You know we have an anonymous tip box, we have anonymous hotline in which they can call.
Anosh Yaqoob: That’s what Keith Kaneshiro does.
Dwight Nadamoto: We have done a lot of things. We have created we have formalized our policies, we have installed encrypted devices so that we can monitor and control and make sure that sensitive information is not going out. Regarding plea agreements, they are looked upon by multiple individuals so you know integrity is very important and we are doing the best we can to fix that.
Moderator: Go ahead Jacquie.
Robert RJ Brown: I think that’s the problem.
Jacquie Esser: The reason why we are where with the Prosecutors is the problem is they have not been operating transparent and being held accountable. And that needs to change.
Anosh Yaquoob: The public doesn’t believe any of that. The public believes that this is all [unable to understand] and corrupt. Please.
Jacquie Esser: we need to adopt the transparency of the Prosecutors.
Moderator: Hold on one second Jacquie if you don’t mind.
Jacquie Esser: All of our major policies…
Moderator: One second Jacquie. Anosh if you don’t mind. I, I, we’re going to get to you.
Anosh Yaqoob: I know. I know.
Moderator: One second. One second. Anosh, Anosh. One second. We do want to make sure that everybody gets a chance to…to finish their answers. If we could we’re also going to have time for a discussion, we’re also going to have time for you to answer as well so if we could otherwise it makes it difficult to hear what everybody is saying if we continue to talk over one another so hold your thoughts for a minute Anosh and we will get to you in just a moment. Jacquie go ahead.
Anosh Yaqoob: Sorry Ms. Yamada. With this many people…
Jacquie Esser: Thank you Lara. So right now the prosecutor’s office operates in a blackbox. It does not operate with transparency and it is not being held accountable. And we can change that by adopting the prosecutor transparency act which I fully support and even if it’s not passed I will put all of our major policies online. I’ve been doing that throughout my candidacy. I have been very bold, upfront with my policies. I will operate the same as Prosecutor. We need a participatory prosecutor office where the public can engage with the Prosecutor’s office. There needs to be responsive by the administration and I will bring that to the prosecutors.
Moderator: Tae, why don’t you go ahead.
Dwight Nadamoto: What do you mean when you talk about prosecutorial transparency? Exactly what is the nebulous term you are talking about?
Jacquie Esser: When you decide to charge someone…
Dwight Nadamoto: All of the things we do, when we charge a case we…our charges are based upon the evidence. It’s just based upon the evidence. We charge an offense which we believe we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
[Several candidates speaking at the same time. Unable to make out individual voices clearly]
Moderator: Alright everyone. I want to give some of the other candidates a chance to speak. OK? I want to give other candidates a chance to speak so if you could hold your thoughts please I want to go ahead and have Tae share his thoughts. Go ahead Tae.
Tae Kim: Thank you Lara. You know, when I first started out campaigning, or at least look into running for this office people have often asked me how can we ever trust the prosecutor's office again? I mean that’s been the echoing question
Anosh Yaqoob: Yes!
Tae Kim: Throughout the island. You know whichever neighborhood I would go in they ask the same question again, “how do we ever trust the Prosecutor’s office again?” And one thing and this is not anything directly or derogatory or offensitory to Dwight. I like Dwight. I’ve worked with Dwight. He’s an upright guy but having been hand-picked by Keith Kaneshiro to lead the office we need at least some answers as to what happened at least an explanation to the public. At least explain to the public circumstances behind it at the very least and Dwight has been the acting prosecutor for almost 18 months now and I know he’s doing his best but we need accountability we need some of the answers um looked into and discussed with the people because people are in dire need of wanting answers as to why we can’t trust the prosecutor’s office.
Moderator: Now Dwight I know that a lot of this is directed at you. So I’m gonna give you a chance to respond in a minute. But, I want to make sure we get to everyone here so Steve go ahead.
Steve Alm: This election is all about restoring trust to the Prosecutor’s office and I think it’s incumbent on the voters to select somebody who has the experience and proven record of not only being a prosecutor…
Anosh Yaqoob: Kaneshiro had all the experience in the world.
Steve Alm: but leading a team, leading a team [Anosh continues speaking but difficult to make out] hold it hold it hold it Anosh leading a team of prosecutors in order [Moderator: Anosh] to lead with ethics and to restore the trust to that office and another thing the public is looking for is who has the proven record to use innovative solutions to reduce crime. That will bring the public’s trust back and I have a record of doing that. Thank you.
Moderator: Anosh go ahead and this is your opportunity to speak succinctly about what your thoughts are. Go ahead Anosh
Anosh Yaquoob: I’m sorry who is that? First I need to tell all the people who voted for me, thank you. Back in 2016 when I was the only one in the arena against the bad guys against Keith Kaneshiro and the Kealoha’s any vote for Kaneshiro was a vote for the Kealoha’s because he attached himself to them. Not one inch of daylight between any of them so for me this is vindication, I want to say thank you to all the people who voted for me because I know everyone was mocked and denigrated and put down and you know what we were vindicated and that’s great. Secondly, you don’t have to become captivated and mesmerized, and totally hypnotized by this idea of experience, experience, experience, now we got Calvin Say coming back, we got Mufi coming back we got all these people we don’t need that. We don’t need anymore relics from the past we don’t need anymore dinosaurs we don’t need anything that’s [???] we need something new something new finally new blood okay something else. I was the
only one. Where the hell did all these people come from? Why did all these people decide all of a sudden they want to be the Honolulu City Prosecutor?
Moderator: Alright, Anosh we do want to maintain a level of integrity here so.
Anosh Yaqoob: Only once he was ousted from office right? Nobody wanted to take him on when he was a colossus, when he was a big deal, when he had $100,000? When he was a big guy then nobody wanted to take him on right?
Moderator: We want to keep this a fair discussion. Again if you can keep it a little bit succinct. Thank you very much. So let’s move on. So, let me ask a question that kind of has to do.
Anosh Yaqoob: Where were all these people back in 2016? Where were they?
Moderator: Thank you. Let me move on to another question and that I think delves a little bit into the areas that some of the prosecuting attorney’s office deals so maybe I’m going to start with you first, RJ. In what areas are the Prosecutor’s Attorney’s office do you feel is falling most short? For example, in areas of domestic violence, elder abuse, cyber crime. What are your thoughts in response to that question?
Robert RJ Brown: You know at the end of the day it’s about where are you establishing your priorities? That is in respect to financially in your account. Prior to Covid outbreak what you saw was a significant increase in violent crimes and we need to focus on those types of offenses, violent offenses, serious offenses against victims where you got things you got burglaries, robberies, that type of thing that’s where I’d like to get the bulk of our resources, the bulk of our talent to make sure we focus on those and we are winning those trials you know the way that the prosecutor’s office is set up you got very large divisions like the felony trial division that handles everything from murder down to drug possession if I was ultimately elected what I would like to do is create smaller more specialized divisions a homicide division, a burglary division, a robbery division, let’s make sure that we get the deputies the training that they need so that when they get those cases they understand the issues they understand the cases and they’re winning the cases that have to be won.
Anosh Yaqoob: I think that the people can trust is the first and most important thing
Moderator: Why don’t we turn to you Tae. Let’s go to you next. Your thoughts again. I’m going to repeat the question. In what areas are the prosecuting attorney’s office do you feel is falling most short: domestic abuse, elder abuse, cyber crimes, sexual assault what are your thoughts.
Tae Kim: You know in public safety the foundation of Public Safety is people being informed to what’s happening in the criminal justice system. I believe that’s lacking. There is no foundation people have been in the dark as to what’s happening. So I would say within the first 100 days I would establish community sessions to get the people involved and hold open houses regular open houses at the Prosecutor’s office. People have to be involved in public safety. Law enforcement cannot by itself achieve public safety. So I’m all for getting the people involved. If people are involved there is an oversight and there will be accountability and the more people know the more power to them. It is an elected office, by the people, and it should be for the people.
Moderator: Let’s go ahead and turn it to Jacquie. Jacquie your response to that question?
Jacquie Esser: Thank you Lara. and Anosh I’m going to ask you not to interrupt me please.
Anosh Yaqoob: We’ll see. We’ll see.
Jacquie Esser: The problem I see in the Prosecutor’s office is that it criminalizes homelessness, mental illness and substance abuse treatment. We have to stop that. By doing that we can focus on the serious violent crimes the crimes that matter most to communities and surge up convictions and we also can reallocate resources to be meaningful provide treatment meaningful treatment to crime victims and we can offer restorative justice and wrap around services for victims and by diverting homelessness, mental illness and substance abuse to community based services we are safer in the long run we will have less victims and so it has to be a reallocation and we have to start treating mental illness and addiction for what it is: a public health issue.
Moderator: Steve why don’t I turn to you.
Steve Alm: Okay before I was appointed as the United States Attorney I was at the Honolulu Prosecutor’s office for 9 ½ years that’s where I learned to be a supervisor. I was a felony team captain and then I was head of the district and family court division.
Anosh Yaqoob: That’s so fortunate.
Steve Alm: There I stressed we had to create a culture of doing justice and not just winning cases so that would have to be applied to the whole office and then in order to do that you’ve got to institute training. I set up training courses on Saturday mornings for the deputy prosecutors over in district court in their suits. They’ve talked about it since then: how much they learned from it. There has to be more training throughout the office. This will upgrade the skills, it will upgrade the morale of deputies throughout the office and then they’re going to be able to pay more attention to the victims learn how to use victims in the cases, how to do better in domestic violence how to do better in all of the areas. It’s an officewide approach, an attitude approach and I’ve been there, I’ve done that, we can do it again.
Moderator: Megan let’s turn to you.
Megan Kau: Thank you Lara. Your question was what charges are we going to focus on if we become the prosecutor? My answer is that I am the only candidate that has taken the most aggressive stance against crime and I will charge all, all charges low level, mid level and high level and the reason why we need to charge low level crimes is because defendants have become more and more brazen, more and more brave, and extremely violent. And what happens is if they are charged with unauthorized control of a propelled vehicle and they are released what they do is they continue to recommit so by the tenth time that they’ve stolen a car and they haven’t been charged they become more brave and more brazen, and so what happens is and this is the problem they become more violent. Let’s say the twelfth time, thirteenth or fourteenth time that they steal a car and a victim comes up to him and says wait a minute you know please do not steal my car and intervenes now that defendant is going to punch this person in the head, stab the person, hold him up with a gun because he has become more and more brazen more and more brazen and more brave and more violent. So I would take an extremely aggressive stance on all crimes including low, mid and high level charges.
Moderator: Anosh why don’t we turn to you. You want to go ahead and respond to the question? In what areas are the Prosecutor Attorney’s office falling most short in your opinion for example, domestic violence, elder abuse, your thoughts?
Anosh Yaqoob: The first area that the prosecutor’s office is failing in is public trust. Okay nobody can trust any of these candidates. They all jumped in after Kaneshiro was ousted. Okay that’s the first thing. While there are other let’s say other issues you know concerning assault and domestic violence and what not people have to trust that the person there isn’t crooked. Now here I need to respond to something. There is no reason why when Peter Carlisle is not qualified to be on the ballot he should be trying to go to the circuit court and get the court to put him on the ballot and say that I’m bigger than the rules. The rules don’t have to apply to me. In the time of Kaneshiro, in the time of the Kealoha’s to say I’m bigger than the rules and Megan Kau was the one who was there filing in court. We don’t need Carlisle’s boy, we don’t need Kaneshiro’s boy, we don't need any Randos. What we need is somebody who voters can trust he is in fact the person with the right moral compass and that was me because I took him on in 2016 when he was the colossus. Everybody who voted for me was mocked, and denigrated and made fun of but we were right. We were right. Everybody that voted for me look at the smile on my face from ear to ear our wildest dreams came true because when you run against somebody and then they mock you, they put you down and then they’re the ones…
Moderator: So I want to go ahead and move on now and try to be respectful of everyone’s time. Anosh, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Who we haven’t gotten to yet is Dwight so I want to go ahead one moment please just to make sure we get a chance to have everybody respond. Dwight, go ahead I’d like to give you a chance to respond.
Dwight Nadamoto: Thank you Lara. The two things I see most important today are domestic violence and drugs. Regarding domestic violence I have hired and he has been training my deputies since the beginning of the year: Scott Kessler. He is the former bureau chief of Queens in the domestic violence area. His methods of prosecuting domestic violence have been adopted by the federal government. Mr. Kessler has been working with one of my deputies and we are trying to create a law which makes domestic violence easier to prosecute. Um hopefully it would’ve passed this session but because of the Covid things we are hopeful if it doesn’t pass this session it passes the next session. One of the other major problems I see is ice. In 2009 we had 37 ice-related deaths. In 2019 it rose to 170. 129 of those were in Hawaii. Recently before the legislature was a bill to make less than two grams of ice a misdemeanor. Nobody opposed that bill of the candidates except myself. We get approximately 500 ice cases a day of a small amount.
Jacquie Esser: That’s exactly the problem. The war on drugs does not work. [continues to speak but unable to make out the exact words]
Anosh Yaqoob: What does that have to do with anything? [continues to speak but unable to make out the exact words]
Dwight Nadamoto: If that bill passed, if that bill passed, you will have more addictions, you will have more deaths now Ms. Esser is trying to intimate that people go to jail for levels of ice, that’s not true. They go to jail because of the crimes they commit because they need ice. I look at the stats. I look at the convictions. Nobody goes to jail.
Jacquie Esser: What Mr. Nadamoto is talking about has ripped our communities apart. And has caused generational trauma to Native Hawaiians and black and brown people.
Moderator: Jacquie I’ll give you an opportunity in just a minute.
Dwight Nadamoto: We need to get a hold of our ice problem
Moderator: Now we need to get to some viewer questions shortly here but if anybody wants to respond with a brief response please go ahead.
Jacquie Esser: What Mr. Nadamoto is talking about is exactly why we are where we are. We cycle people through our jails and prisons. We provide no treatment. You can invest in the same old or you can start investing in our communities. It is time we start treating addiction and we do that by diverting people out of the criminal justice system. Stop criminalizing.
Anosh Yaqoob: says something about the protests going on. Unable to make out the exact words.
Jacquie Esser: Mass incarceration has destroyed our families, our communities, and lives for generations and we will continue to do it until we start investing in communications, in communities and education and we can do that today by a vote for Jacquie Esser.
Anosh Yaqoob: I think Lara you gotta ask the question when did you all decide to even try to run for this office? Hahaha! Where were you in 2016?
Moderator: We’re going to move ahead on some viewer questions now. So here’s a question from Stephanie from Twitter she says, “what are your views on Hashtag Defund The Police and Hashtag Police Reform?”
Anosh Yaqoob: Ok my view is that defund the police is not really about defunding the police it’s about reallocating resources and that’s an easy answer. That’s not hard. That just means you have to give more money to health and human services, mental health and other kind of topics that the police really are not equipped or trained to deal with. That’s easy. That’s not hard, that’s not hard.
Moderator: I’d like to give other people a chance to respond.
Dwight Nadamoto: OK, let’s not forget Lara that it was not more than 2 months ago that our violent crimes were way up, that people were asking for more police officers. While I agree that horrendous things were going on in the mainland and by the way I have prosecuted a police officer. I prosecuted a police officer who was a head of a burglary ring in Hawaii Kai and I took that thing to trial and I did the appeal. So while police officers have done horrible things on the mainland I believe that the police officers here for the most part are alright.
Moderator: Steve I saw you raise your hand there. Steve go ahead.
Steve Alm: There’s no question that the police here are doing one of the toughest jobs out here and they have been asked to cover everything that happens whether it’s mental health , whether its homeless issues and otherwise. So I think they would welcome the help from other experts to try to work together to solve problems. Captain Lambert has been very creative in what he’s doing. But we need to have a community wide effort to help things like the homeless and to work with HPD to solve problems. They cannot be asked to solve everything. They are there to help us when there is violence to help us when we’re being attacked. They run when there’s gun fire. They run toward it, everybody else runs away. I don’t think they’d object at all in getting more help to deal with these issues. Thank you.
Moderator: So I’m going to get to some other viewer questions.
Anosh Yaqoob: It’s not about providing more help. It’s not about…
Moderator: One moment please Anosh. One moment please. So I’m going to get to some other viewer questions and I’m going to ask individuals and if you have a little bit of a response to a previous question please feel free to add your comments as well but keep in mind that we’re trying to keep this relatively succinct so everybody can have a chance to respond so I’m going to go ahead and maybe ask this one to Megan. This is from Kanani on Facebook. She says do you believe systemic racism exists within the HPD and the Justice System? If so, how would you address that?
Megan Kau: No, I do not believe that systemic racism exists in the criminal justice system in Honolulu. I do not believe that police officers intentionally go after Hawaiians and pull over Hawaiians over Non Hawaiians and charge Hawaiians over Non Hawaiians. I believe that other candidates have used the fact that Hawaiians are overrepresented in jails systems or in our facilities to use a platform to gain popularity. And that would be the same thing as saying well men are overrepresented in our detention facilities over women. And so, the question then is is law enforcement going specifically after men over women? And the answer to that is no. The officer, the Prosecuting Attorney’s job is to objectively apply the criminal laws that exist as they exist and as they were passed by the Legislature. The Prosecutor does not make law. The Prosecutor only executes law and therefore if you objectively apply the law to everybody whether male or female, Hawaiian or Non Hawaiian, homeless or not homeless then you are doing your job as a Prosecuting Attorney.
Anosh Yaqoob: One of the things that nobody remembers is that the victims of the Kealoha case were Hawaiian.
Jacquie Esser: I’m sorry I would like to respond to that. The Hawaiian objectiveness that Miss Kau is talking about how it has been used as a weapon against our most vulnerable communities for generations and it needs to stop. Systemic racism absolutely exists. It’s the reason why I can get pulled over and not have my driver’s license on me and I get a warning. When my Micronesian client not only gets a ticket, he gets arrested and he’s put in jail and the bail is set that he cannot afford it. It’s going to take true transformational change to hui the system. I have been fighting for these reforms my entire legal career and I’m fighting for them right now and I’m prepared to do that as Honolulu Prosecutor.
Moderator: I’m going to move on to another viewer question… again just to remind all of you, if I don’t ask you this question specifically, just take a mental note, and if you feel you want to respond to a question that wasn’t asked directly of you, you can go ahead and tag on to the question that I direct at you. So just keep that in mind and feel free to add some extra thoughts. I’m going to send this one over to RJ… this is from Trent on Facebook, he says “how do you plan to implement you’re proposed changes in the legal system if it contradicts or bends existing laws?”
Robert (RJ) Brown: I don’t think you can contradict or bend the existing laws. You’ve got to work within the confines of the laws. Look at the end of the day, every individual here were lining up to be the prosecutor. I’m not lining up to create laws, I’m lining up to enforce the laws and that’s the job, period. Now that said, there’s a great deal of discretion that comes with being a prosecuting attorney, but my obligation is to review evidence, make a charge, try the case and if you’re found guilty, to recommend an appropriate sentence and that is where I see the great amount of discretion that you can apply. How can we get this person help? Is incarceration absolutely necessary? Can we get them out of the criminal justice system? Can we push them into a diversion program? Can we get them into treatment? That is where see my ability as a prosecutor to get the job done correctly. To the extent I would say, are those candidates within the group that would come out and say, strictly not going to follow a particular law or not work with a particular agency because of some political issue, I find that completely inappropriate.
Moderator: I’m going to go out and throw this over to Tae first. If you want to go ahead and respond and this is again Trent asking how do you plan to implement, this is the way that he is asking the question, “how do you plan to implement you’re proposed changes in the legal system if it contradicts or bends existing laws?” Tae?
Tae Kim: You know, we have to start with existing laws and if it contradicts or in any way impede existing laws, we have to do it the right way. When I say we need to get people involved, people have to be informed of what contradicts, what impedes, what prevents current law and whether there is need for change. And we can’t do it alone. The prosecutor’s job is not some man or contradict. Prosecutors job is to apply the law as it is, as it currently stands. Now, really quickly on the systemic racism, I do believe with this diverse culture, even with our diverse culture, one of the most diverse cultures melting pot in the world, people have their own biases. It’s systemic because it’s not, it didn’t happen overnight, now its over a period of decades, generations. People have their own biases. Asians have biases among Asians. Caucasians as well. To say that there is no biases and prejudices and preconceived notions and feelings and attitude that is completely false. We need to recognize it, we need to stand up against it, and sometimes it’s not easy to spot, sometimes its not easy to recognize and we need to actually be mindful. As a prosecutor, I will tell my deputy on a regular basis, that we need to stand up for any kind of prejudices and biases. We don’t play politics. Fairness, it applies to everybody equally and our job is to apply the law, as it stands.
Moderator: Thank you and Steve I saw you raise your hand there a little bit and as I mentioned to everyone if you want to tag on a little bit, that’s fine to a previous question but I do want to make sure that we get through as many viewer questions as possible. So, this one is actually directed to you. This is Joe from Honolulu and he said, “would Judge Alm be likely to increase the bail at arraignment or plea?
Anosh Yaqoob: Yeah
Steve Alm: Well, if that’s the current thing and you’re in there and the person is really violent and dangerous and something has been missing, you would have to increase the bail, but to go back to the question you just had, if there is a problem with the law, part of the job as the prosecutor is leadership. To go to the legislature, go to the city council and change the law. But most of the time, you can use existing law. When I was the United States attorney, I led law enforcement effort in Chinatown and Kalihi-Palama and in 3 years, we reduced crime by 70%. 7-0%. It changed both neighborhoods.
Anosh Yaqoob: What year was that?
Steve Alm: And that allowed people to start businesses, allowed people to be safe, local people wouldn’t want to go downtown, wouldn’t want to park their cars they thought they’d get assaulted. So, when you work together and collaborate and work hard, you can get almost anything done. Thank you.
Moderator: Now Anosh, I do want to turn this over to you in just a minute, but I do want to also let you know, Anosh yes, there have been some complaints from viewers. I just want you to keep in mind that this, you know viewers are watching this and they are making some judgements as to which candidates they would like in this position. So please keep that in mind, as to how you may be coming off to the public who is viewing this.
Anosh Yaqoob: I don’t care. I say what I need to say. You brought up systemic racism earlier… I understand systemic exclusion. I’ve been systemically excluded a number of times and I need to say what I need to say. And you know, I will not be, you know what year was thing he’s talking about? When did that even happen? Was that 40 years ago? Was that in the 80’s? Like do we really need that anymore? I mean come on. Do we need to bring back more people from the past?
Steve Alm: We always need to reduce crime. That’s a constant. I’ve done it before; I’ll do it again. Thank you Anosh.
Anosh Yaqoob: No, do we need to keep bringing back and electing people from the past? Lara, I just wanted to ask If you would ask, what year was the thing he was describing?
Moderator: I’m going to go ahead and move on to the next question if you don’t mind. We want to make sure we give everybody a chance. So…Dwight, I’m going to direct this to you. “If elected, how are you going to work with the FBI to prosecute those using ID theft to obtain money through the CARES Act and through stimulus?”
Dwight Nadamoto: You know, we already worked with the federal government. While I was prosecutor, we had something which is called “intelligence-based prosecution”. What that is, when we target a group or when we concentrate our resources on a group of people who are committing a majority of the crime, so we concentrate our forces on those people and what HPD did, they came to me and said “let’s concentrate on these people”. I assigned 2 of my best deputy prosecuting attorneys to those cases. We were able to when they reoffended, put them back in jail. When they reoffended, put them back in jail. And the leader of that group, we were able to send to the US attorney’s office and he prosecuted them. And once the leader was gone, once the head is cut off, everything started to fall. I mean I work well with the US attorney and I worked well with HPD. So, what you do is, kind of do a joint task force and that’s how you would approach it. I mean the US attorney or the Feds they can take ____ the most bang for the buck. And we can take the other case. The important thing is, we have a lot of power, we have a lot of the laws in our favor for the local type of crime so it’s good for us to work together.
Moderator: Alright, thank you Dwight. Let me ask this question from David. Maybe we’ll start with Jacquie on this one. And again, I just want to keep reminding everyone I’m giving everyone a little more homework to remember the questions that have been asked before in case you want to respond to those as well. That’s going to be your opportunity. So, this question is from David, he says “programs that mention treatment, how do you plan to fund those treatments?”
Jacquie Esser: By ending cash bail is one way. We spend $198 per day to house someone in our jail and our jails are filled with people who do not need to be there. We spend over $209,000 every single day jailing people because they do not have the money to post bail so that is one example. By diverting crimes that stem from poverty, mental illness and addiction out of the criminal justice system, we also are saving money. And we can work with community-based organizations to provide wrap around services to give people the treatment that they need, and we will have less crime because of that. And so, when you think about the collateral consequences of the victims that we’re saving in the future and the crimes that we’re preventing from happening, we are saving millions of dollars.
Moderator: I’m going to send this one over to Dwight. You want to go ahead and pick up on that.
Dwight Nadamoto: You know, first of all, low level drug dealers are not going to prison only people who go to prison are people who have gone to prison not because of drugs but because drugs make them commit these crimes. Over and over again, I’ve looked at those cases and the reason they go to jail because of the burglary, because of the theft, because of the robberies. Let’s face it, back in 2016 the legislature with the blessing of the judiciary made repeat violent drug offenders’ probation able. That’s the push. You cannot tell me that low level drug dealers are going to prison when they even allow repeat violent drug offenders to be eligible for probation. You’re not going to save any money. The people in prison have committed crimes. Not just a minor offense but possession, they’ve committed burglary, they’ve committed theft, they’ve committed robberies. Nobody goes to prison for just having a small amount of ice. And if that bill passes, less than 2 grams, misdemeanor, you’re going to have more violence, more addiction, you’re going to have more crime.
Jacquie Esser: What he just said shows his lack of experience in the courtroom. There are many, there are thousands of people right now in our prison for a possession offence. And that is a problem with using criminal justice issues for medical issues like this. We need to divert the treatment because what happens is if they get probation, but they keep using drugs eventually they will go to prison. There are thousands of people right now in our prisons who have never received treatment and we’re going to open the door and they are going to go out and they will reoffend and recycle.
Moderator: I want to give some of the others a chance to respond. Go ahead Steve.
Steve Alm: I was asked to chair the penal code review committee in 2015. 29 members defense attorneys, prosecutors and one of the problems in contrast to what Mr. Nadamoto is saying is possession of a small amount of drugs at that time was still part of the repeat offenders sentencing. So, judges did not have discretion at the second time they had one of those cases they had to give them 5 years in prison. What the committee recommended was leave it up to the discretion of the judge. If they are violent and dangerous there are other reasons to lock them up and send them to prison. But if they have a drug problem, that’s the biggest part of it now, they have options to put them on probation. And research is clear that drug treatment is much more effective in the community than it is in prison. So, it should be a case by case basis and the year before we passed, we recommended that law change, 225 people were sent to prison for promoting dangerous drug in the third degree, that’s possession of a small amount. The year after it passed, they were given discretion, it dropped to about 130. So giving judge’s discretion, listening to the prosecutors, because looking at a case by case basis that kept a lot of people out of prison and able to work on their drug problem on the outside where it was more effective. So, you got to base criminal justice decisions on data ad research, not on anecdote, not on gut feeling and not on we’ve always done it this way.
Moderator: Alright, so I want to give the others a chance to respond.
Dwight Nadamoto: Lara, I disagree with that. The judge had a way to keep those offenders out. The judge first had to make a determination that the person was nonviolent. After making that determination, the judge had to make a find that he/she was going to go into a program that would help with her drug addiction. So, there was an option to that.
Moderator: Let me give some of the others a chance to respond. Megan, did you want to respond?
Megan Kau: You’re question Lara was, “how are we as a prosecutor going to help fund drug treatment programs?” And the answer to that question is that the prosecutor does not have the authority to determine how the legislature will use its funds. However, a prosecuting attorney can educate the legislature as to what’s going on in the criminal justice system and break down the criminal justice system so that they have a better understanding of where they should put their money and that’s what I would do.
Moderator: Alright RJ, let me ask you this question, this is from Tom from Laupahoehoe. “If elected, how will you address overcrowding of prisons?”
Robert (RJ) Brown: You know, I think this all comes down to what we’ve been talking about… and the reality is when I was a prosecutor, 90% of the cases that you deal with got some connection to methamphetamine or other substance abuse. You just can’t fight those statistics and the problem while we’re talking over each other, this is the chicken and egg thing. If we do not address the underlying addiction, you’re going to continue to see more and more offences take place. There’s going to be property offences, then graduate to more violent offences. We have to 100% refocus the way we are thinking about incarceration within the criminal justice system. Generally, by getting these guys the help that they need and the reality is they are not getting it inside Halawa and they are not getting it inside OCCC. Now you got to get them into a treatment programs, you’ve got to get them the assistance they ultimately need. Now, the reality is these addictions are so strong, you’re not going to have a ton of success stories. But what I can guarantee you is that if you throw somebody into Halawa and they’ve got an addiction problem, they’re going away for 5 years or 10 years, 15 or whatever it is. Now these guys are not coming out in a better situation than when they went in. Our community is not going to be safer if we’re just saying, you know what? Let’s bang him, let’s be tough on crime, let’s throw away the key. That’s not working, it hasn’t been working and you’re seeing that with an increase in violence every single day. So, we’ve got to think about this differently. We’ve got to bring a little bit of compassion, little bit of morality, little bit of understanding and empathy to the situation without losing sight that public safety is the number one concern. But my feeling is if you do try to get these guys into treatment, if you do try to get them the help, you’re going to see a reduction in prison population numbers, you’re going to see a reduction in crime that’s going to create a better situation across the board.
Moderator: Anosh Yaqoob let me turn this question to you this is Nico from twitter he said “what would you do to reduce the overrepresentation of Native Hawaiian and Micronesians in Honolulu’s criminal legal system?
Anosh Yaqoob: well I think a number of the candidates have made it clear, you know there accurate they are not wrong this isn’t really the kind of thing we can control. When crime are committed we have to prosecute them and what this is really about is you know applying the law its not about making the law. we do our best to influence the law when bills and measures come up at the city council and state legislature the prosecuting office is asked submit testimony for or against those measures that’s the most you can do and then as the cases come up you have to prosecute them and then you have to follow where the evidence will lead you. That’s what that job is, that what this is. So I cant really tell you what I could do to reduce the number of Micronesians being prosecuted. Except what I do want to keep pointing out is the one thing when I talk to people that I cant seem to get anyone to ever say on their own is to recognized that the victims of the Kealohas were also Native Hawaiians. Native Hawaiian are also victimized. Why is there so much emposis on native Hawaiian being over prosecuted when native Hawaiian are actually the victims of many crimes. They deserve justice just the same as anyone else. You know what I mean. And more or less again I have to tell all my voters in 2016 good on you. Look at us now.
Moderator: we haven’t had a chance to hear from Tae in a while same thing questions about overrepresentation reducing it in native Hawaiian and Micronesians in Honolulu’s criminal legal system? Your thought Tae?
Tae Kim: let me take a step back, really quickly. Prosecutor job as ____ said it not all about conviction. The prosecutor goal is public safety and I would agree with RJ and Miss Esser that prevention goes a lot further for public safety and Convictions than just locking them up. How are we prepared to prevent, what are we going to do to expand the rehabilitation and mental illness and support people that needs help. Help must be available. We can all agree that help is nowhere near available to everybody. There are programs and there are treatment center but are they equipped to provide the services but one bed spaces there are anywhere from 20-50 people wanting to get in, we have to expand out rehabilitation and treatment program and we need to work on prevention and how are we going to do that? We cant do public safety alone. Law enforcement cannot. We got to get people involved, people input and what’s troubling their community and send investigator out there. Possibly before it happens. One les case in court, one less arrest is one less person in prison. Now getting back to native Hawaiians and I do believe we need to be culturally sensitive to Micronesian and Native Hawaiians. Growing up in Hawaii, Hawaiians and even Micronesians loves their family. They care for there family. They value there cultural. There very prideful and it’s not the issue of that, it’s the issue of educating early on. The importance in recognizing law enforcement and respecting the law enforcement.
Moderator: Tae I’m going to have to have you wrap it up just a little bit. Thank you thank you thank you Alright! Let me ask this question to Jacquie. This is from Ally Pate. Given the recent civil unrest with police department across the country if you’re elected as Honolulu’s prosecutor, how do you propose we move forward as a state?
Jacquie Esser: One we have to have meanful police reform, and we can do that by stop sending our police officers to treat public health issues. If someone is having a behavioral health crisis they do not need armed police to come, who are not trained in deescalating, who are not trained in providing service to someone that’s in a mental health crisis. Likewise if someone was having a seizure on the street we wouldn’t want armed police coming to that. We would want doctors, we would want behavioral health professional. And its not like judge alm said it’s not helping our police officers, we have to stop, we we don’t want our police officers being those. Not only does it put our police officers, being the front line in danger, it also puts our community in danger. So it’s not collaborating with our police. We have to not send our police. We have to send behavioral health people, when it’s a behavior health crisis. So that’s one way. Also we can not have and I call upon all of you. To not accept endorsements from law, police officers, unions. We have to completely break the tie between prosecutors and police union. When police are violent, if they something seriously wrong with our system. The police office can commit domestic violent on video camera and not be arrested or charged with an offense and keep his job and the public never hears about it. Still on the street patrolling the community this absolutely has to change.
Moderator: So I do need to go an move on.
Jacquie Esser: If you have a police office endorsed by the unions.
Moderator: I’m gonna go ahead, Steve go ahead.
Steve Alm: I was proud to get the police union endorsement. I know some of the other candidatse here tried to get the endorsement as well. They recognized that I had the experience, I’m tough enough to prosecute case and do it. They knew as US attorney I have prosecuted police officers for civil rights violations and prosecuted police officers for corruption. That’s part of the deal, that’s who I am, and I continued to do the same thing as city prosecutor. Maybe with somebody else that would be affected by that, but it doesn’t affect me. Just like that I’m proud to get the endorsement as I got the masons, the laborers, the iron workers, ILWU, Plumbers, Fitters. They’re from teams across the island and the recognized that I’ve been an administrator I can get the job done.
Moderator: Alright let me turn it over to Dwight. Diaz is asking the courts are already back logged with cases and our prison are already over flowing. Where are you plan on getting the resources and the money for that?
Dwight Nadamoto: Well as you know I support ___ prison and to my understanding that prison. That prison would have been financed in the private sector. Talking about drug treatment, we actually need drug treatment that will not endanger public safety. If a person can get treatment outside, then that’s fine but to often times they fail and fail again. There put on probation they go to drug treatment, they mess up, then their put on probation again and again and again. This is endangering public safety. We need to get a drug treatment that why I support a new prison large enough that has meaningful space. For meaning drug treatment policy. That is who will get the money for drug treatment.
Moderator: alright im going to turn it over to RJ
Jacquie Esser: We have to stop investing to jail and start investing in our communities
Moderator: I wanna give RJ a chance to respond. I’m sorry we only have a few minutes left. Just want to make sure I get everybody’s voice in there. So RJ questions of court being backlogged and cases overflowing. Where are you going to get the resources for that?
Robert RJ Brown: one of the opportunities you’ll have as a prosecutor, is that you get to get that fully pulpit. And at the end of the day what the voters have to think about is are they electing a leader? Is this individual going to be able to got to the ligature and city council and say listen we have issues. It’s a matter of public safety and you got to provide us with the necessary funds to get the resources in place that are going to be required to keep the community safe. And I like. If given the opportunity im happy to break that battle. Happy to go to the council and say this has to be done and bring the public along with me because everyone recognizes the importance of public safety. Everyone understands the need to keep our family and friends safe and feel comfortable when walking down the street at night. It really is a matter of will. On that matter, I am going bring it.
Moderator: Alright. I’m to turn this question over to Anosh, what happens on day one of the job?
Anosh Yaqoob: I have a meeting with a number of people who are the head of various divisions, prosecuting office is divided into many different divisions. One of the misconceptions many things never seemed to be mentioned about me. I did work in the Maui County prosecutor’s office. Appellate division, their felony screening division. There is district court division. There is a circuit court division. I want to sit down with all of those head on day one and get a sense from all of them and ask them what are the important cases they are dealing with right now. If there are case before the ICA that the immidate court of appeals what are those case? If you have case pending against the hawaii supreme court, what are those cases? I want to talk to the division heads just to get a sense first right on top, one day one. Of what are the most important cases you have under your department.
Moderator: were going to have to move it along a little bit, Megan I want to give you a chance to answer that question. What happens on day one of the job? We got about a minute left. About thirty seconds to you Tae.
Megan Kau: I am the only candidate that the federal government in investigating Keith Kanashrio and Catherine Kealoha. And I understand Mr. Nanamoto was subpoenaed into testifying but I wasn’t subpoenaed. I actively assisted the government. So the first thing I would do is, I would bring everyone together and say this is my vision and to charge all crimes and im going to ask the people that were involved with Catherine Kealoha to resign.
Moderator: and Tae I’m going to give you about twenty seconds.
Tae Kim: on the same question?
Moderator: on day one of the job?
Tae Kim: day one of the job, I would make a list of people I’m going to let go. There will be a list of people that will be let go, they will be fired. That’s it.
Moderator: and that’s concise
I was ever before the grand jury while I was a regular deputy. That is because they know I had nothing to do with the Kealoha scam. After I became acting prosecuting attorney.
Moderator: I’m afraid we’re running out of time. I have to cut you off. I apologize because I know there’s more discussing to be had. Mahalo to you for joining us tonight RJ Brown, Steve Alm, Tae Kim, Jacquie Esser, Megan Kau, Dwight Nanamototo and Anosh Yaqoob